Curse

Regulus X · Jan 24, 2010, 07:53 PM // 19:53

All melee in 4v4's bane, this elite promotes 1-1-1-1 spammage and complete shutdown every four seconds. I've seen E/Me's with B.Surge + Distortion + Grasping Earth to literally make meleers pull their hair from their heads! I mostly see /N with rip enchantments and enfeeble. Blind alone usually does the job, but now weakening them so that IF they land any attacks they'll be reduced by 66%? Even the players using them admit it's overpowered!

In 4v4 RA/CA, this elite is just too good and begging for a nerf. In 8v8 format it's understood that you'll have a 3+ healing/condition-removal backline so you'll hardly have any troubles with blind. For the sake of us 4v4 goons, NERF BLINDING SURGE. My suggestion is to increase it's recharge to 8 seconds and increase the cast time to 1 second. That way ele's can't get too carried away with abusing the blind condition. It makes having a -40% blind redux actually become USEFUL and not USELESS as it currently is vs. this crapload of suck.

Nerf.

B.

SURGE.

NOTE: APATHETIC TOM IS PROHIBITTED FROM POSTING ANYWHERE ON THIS THREAD IF IT HAS ANY TROLL IN IT WHATSOEVER.

Songbringer · Jan 24, 2010, 09:00 PM // 21:00

Lets split PvP into 3 catagories. 4v4 |Real PvP | HA. We can nerf everything just for 4v4. Then have real skill balances in actual pvp. Then in HA we can add the addition of PvE skills and 4 more skill slots.

Hm, now we just need to add real pvp to the game.

QQ MOAR PLOX +1 b4 close

jackinthe · Jan 24, 2010, 09:11 PM // 21:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Songbringer

Lets split PvP into 3 catagories. 4v4 |Real PvP | HA. We can nerf everything just for 4v4. Then have real skill balances in actual pvp. Then in HA we can add the addition of PvE skills and 4 more skill slots.

Hm, now we just need to add real pvp to the game.

QQ MOAR PLOX +1 b4 close

AB, JQ, and FA are all REAL PVP NOW!

jonnieboi05 · Jan 24, 2010, 09:22 PM // 21:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Songbringer

Lets split PvP into 3 catagories. 4v4 |Real PvP | HA. We can nerf everything just for 4v4. Then have real skill balances in actual pvp. Then in HA we can add the addition of PvE skills and 4 more skill slots.

Hm, now we just need to add real pvp to the game.

QQ MOAR PLOX +1 b4 close

Lol. This sums it up for you. And yes, JQ/FA/RA is some srs bsns.

Regulus X · Jan 24, 2010, 09:34 PM // 21:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Songbringer

Lets split PvP into 3 catagories. 4v4 |Real PvP | HA. We can nerf everything just for 4v4. Then have real skill balances in actual pvp. Then in HA we can add the addition of PvE skills and 4 more skill slots.

Hm, now we just need to add real pvp to the game.

QQ MOAR PLOX +1 b4 close

I don't care if you think 4v4 isn't "real PvP" to you.

PvP = PvP = Player versus Player = Click Enter/Fight Against Non-NPC Characters (or) REAL PLAYERS = Pee vee Pee

Just because it's not the biggest fish in the pond, it doesn't stop it from BEING A FISH. All the fishies need the proper balance in order to survive. If RA were your fish, I bet you'd never feed it, clean out the water tank, and let it poop itself to a fecal death! If RA were your second child, and HA your first, would you lock your second child in your basement and feed him/her bread & water while you take your first child to Chuck E Cheeses and Universal Studios? PROBABLY SO, but thankfully enough you're not a GW1 developer; now, are you? If you were a GW1 Dev., RA/CA would be locked into a most miserable 1-1-1-1-1-1'ing experience for the rest of its natural existence!

B.Surge is the bane of all meleekind, and it needs to be toned down. What's so hard about increasing the recharge and cast time just a teeny little bit to tip meleers' (wearing -40% blind redux modifiers) chances of winning?

B.Surge outshines Signet of Midnite because it has damage. It'll soon outshine EDA when it goes Scythe/Melee attacks only. It totally bogs down matches in RA and CA waaay too much. If Anet has any hopes left in CA they'll tone B.Surge down because otherwise it's just too overwhelming and will force players to roll caster because B.Surge is just too lame to deal with. Players would probably have a better chance of separating fly poop from pepper than win against B.Surge. They'd probably have a better chance running out into a storm and dodging rain. They'd have a better chance of getting out a real-life maze with their eyes plucked out of their skulls. B.Surge is ASS, and it's making RA and CA an even bigger pile of crap than before! I face B.Surgers ALMOST EVERY ROUND in RA. Just imagine when B.Surge has its turn in CA? Can somebody say Roll All Casters Day?! Because nobody wants to deal with being completely shut down as soon as the B.Surger presses the unholy button ONE.

Warvic · Jan 24, 2010, 09:45 PM // 21:45

I totally agree! Even with a monk I am blinded 24/7. Bsurge has an super short recharge. the casting time is not that long either. I only play melee because I like that. But It can be so anoying :P

And people saying 4v4 is not real pvp are not rly smart lol. you play versus other players. So it's pvp duh! I think there r more people who play RA then HA.. So yh let's f*ck HA

I'm using a anti blind shield 24/7 lol

IrishX · Jan 24, 2010, 09:53 PM // 21:53

Option 1: Run rend touch and strip it's attune. It'll run out of energy pretty fast.
Option 2: Run Mend/Plague touch. Problem solved.
Option 3: Count recharge, shock it, kill BSurge.

And yes, I do RA when I'm bored and not GvGing. I have never really had an issue with BSurge there. The AoE is pretty irrelevant, since you aren't adrenal spiking with another warrior or anything that requires converging.

Regulus X · Jan 24, 2010, 10:06 PM // 22:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by IrishX

Option 1: Run rend touch and strip it's attune. It'll run out of energy pretty fast.
Option 2: Run Mend/Plague touch. Problem solved.
Option 3: Count recharge, shock it, kill BSurge.

And yes, I do RA when I'm bored and not GvGing. I have never really had an issue with BSurge there. The AoE is pretty irrelevant, since you aren't adrenal spiking with another warrior or anything that requires converging.

The only problem with that is:

No Choice 1: They have shock arrows and AoR every 12 seconds as well as a 15/15 set (which is more than enough to continue 1-1-1-1'ing B.Surge.
No Choice 2: On meleers, it sacrifices utility, and especially on warriors using p.touch depletes your energy fast.. 3-5 uses and you're pretty much out of energy, so you have to choose between frenzying again? or another p.touch; and the ele I faced had B.Flash as well, so that's 10e every 4 seconds a warrior has to use just to rid of blind.. Is this just?
No Choice 3: 2-3 uses of shock and you're completely exhausted; any RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO-ups and you're assed out for a pretty long time [until exhaustion wears off and you regain your energy that is]!

I'd rather not deal with the bullshit and just tone B.Surge down a little bit.

NoConnection · Jan 24, 2010, 10:22 PM // 22:22

you again ...
finally u realized that bsurge is the problem not blind itself...
/agree its a little op'd for 4v4's but anet doesnt do shit about the real stuff so why should they care about 4v4's?

X Ghoul · Jan 24, 2010, 10:35 PM // 22:35

With how long this game is out I am still shocked people still think they need to take their pimped out melee character to ra. ra in itself is a joke imo, go play ha or gvg if you want to "pvp"

zelgadissan · Jan 24, 2010, 10:35 PM // 22:35

First off, any time I'm in RA it's on a warrior, so I've had plenty of experience against it and I have no serious problem with it. Anyway - let's compare to Blinding Flash at 14 Air Magic since I haven't heard any complaints about its balance in quite some time (unless you want to count your ridiculous "nerf blind" thread).

Casting time and recharge are exactly the same.
Energy - 15 for nonelite, 10 for elite. Point for Surge.
Damage - 0 for nonelite, 47 (+25% AP) for elite. Point for Surge.
Effect - 8 seconds blind for nonelite, 7 seconds adjacent blind for elite. Point for Surge.

When you look at the differences individually, I don't have a problem with any of them. Like I said, I also don't really have a problem combined. However, I can understand why people would be pissy about it being three steps better, so just equalize one of those three and then nobody should be able to complain about it in any format.

Also, just for the record, it's very hard to take you seriously between your troll posts and taking everything to extremes.

EDIT: if they decide to get rid of all the other power creep, then yes, blow the shit out of this skill. Not gonna happen though.

Regulus X · Jan 24, 2010, 10:55 PM // 22:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by zelgadissan

First off, any time I'm in RA it's on a warrior, so I've had plenty of experience against it and I have no serious problem with it. Anyway - let's compare to Blinding Flash at 14 Air Magic since I haven't heard any complaints about its balance in quite some time (unless you want to count your ridiculous "nerf blind" thread).

Casting time and recharge are exactly the same.
Energy - 15 for nonelite, 10 for elite. Point for Surge.
Damage - 0 for nonelite, 47 (+25% AP) for elite. Point for Surge.
Effect - 8 seconds blind for nonelite, 7 seconds adjacent blind for elite. Point for Surge.

When you look at the differences individually, I don't have a problem with any of them. Like I said, I also don't really have a problem combined. However, I can understand why people would be pissy about it being three steps better, so just equalize one of those three and then nobody should be able to complain about it in any format.

Also, just for the record, it's very hard to take you seriously between your troll posts and taking everything to extremes.

EDIT: if they decide to get rid of all the other power creep, then yes, blow the shit out of this skill. Not gonna happen though.

If you don't have problems with B.Surge, then maybe the B.Surgers you've been up against were obviously retarded. Maybe they were too busy trying to blind your monk? Or maybe you had an E.Lunge R/P ally that managed to take him down for you? Or maybe your friendly R/Mo kept M.Touching you so you could actually do something? Or god forbid your MONK actually removed your blinds for you, and the B.Surger you were up against wasn't a /N with Enfeeble and/or B.Flash while L.Orbing your monk to death! Either way, you were probably just lucky. I've won against B.Surge a bit myself, but it's very mind-numbing! All the skill in the world can be crushed if one of those 1-1-1-1's happens to be on your Dev Hammer/Hammer Bash/D.Chops. All the trouble we as melee have to go through just to land that D.Chop, and in the end your monk's probably drained, your team's red bars are near nothing and the only on left standing is you.

Nerfing B.Surge to 1 second casts and 8 second recharges would go a long way in 4v4! That and your -40% blind modifiers would actually MEAN something.

*lemming* · Jan 24, 2010, 10:57 PM // 22:57

a. Bsurge is not a problem outside of 4v4.

b. Hexes are even more broken in 4v4 than spammable blind.

Your average monk bar for RA these days needs at least two hex removals to keep up with even just one hexer. If your monks could devote two slots to condition removal, I'm sure you'd be whining much less.

Bob Slydell · Jan 24, 2010, 11:30 PM // 23:30

This is nothing more than a GIANT QQ MORE PLZ THREAD.

Regulus X · Jan 24, 2010, 11:57 PM // 23:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrisworld

This is nothing more than a GIANT QQ MORE PLZ THREAD.

Yea, and it seems all the B.Surge [ab]users are coming here to troll me about it.

@ Lemming, true that hexes are far more broken than blind because blind in and of itself doesn't do damage, and your average monk normally does have 2 hex removals [veil + cure/spotless/etc.]. The thing about that is that there's no viable way for monks to constantly and effectively remove blind every 4 seconds without draining their entire energy pool, and necros' FF is almost useless because the recharge is 1 second more than bsurge. Not to mention that if the ele has a 40/40 set [and I'll guarantee you he DOES] he'll be able to spam it every 2 seconds almost half the time.

Now, blind by itself will only delay offensive progress, but if you throw empathy, weakness, VoR, SS, SV, LC, etc.. in there... you just have no RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing chance! It's bad enough you're missing 90% of shit, but now whatever damage you land will be negated by 66% and you'll be taking heaps of damage from empathy [especially when frenzied/praged] and your monk just can't do anything about it! Even if you sacrifice shock for p.touch, m.touch, remove hex, etc.. you're still going to be overloaded and your monk can do diddly squat about it! This means that every time you encounter a b.surge + domination mesmer, you'd might as well throw in the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing towel and resign/afk because you're not going to amount to anything. I personally just camp the mesmer to get his attention and empathy me so that I can frenzy + spear them and die fast! It's pretty lame.. If I had empathy but no blind every RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing 4 seconds I'd at least auto-attack a little bit and try to win it, but with b.surge in my face there's just no way to win...

sonofthort · Jan 25, 2010, 01:15 AM // 01:15

BSURGE is not a problem in 4v4. The only time it is a problem is when your team is unbalanced, and has too much melee. This is a pure result of your team being unbalanced, and does not reflect that the skill is over powered. Think about it, you get a good RA or ab team, and you only have one melee, maybe one ranger, sure, the ele can keep blinding the melee, but thats all they are gonna be doing, its basically an eye for an eye, not to mention a good monk will keep removing blind, and rangers should use mending touch.

Imo, blintbot dervs are much more annoying than blinding surge ele's. the blind lasts longer, and is instantly covered by another condition, making it very difficult to remove.

Lord Dagon · Jan 25, 2010, 01:29 AM // 01:29

eh /notsigned.

it gives casters a fighting chance against meele ppl. It keeps blind on them. Learn to live w/ it and fight. Ur a warrior or derv.. learn this fact and flow w/ it.

Owik Gall · Jan 25, 2010, 01:32 AM // 01:32

I thought the last nerf was good enough to keep this balanced. It stopped from affecting adjacent foes easily by adding the condition that the foe has to be enchanted. I guess that ain't enough. I suppose that in order to make blinding skills actually balanced in this game the blindness durations would now have to be less than the recharge times. That way it will force the inflicting players to think rather than spam, spam, spam.

zelgadissan · Jan 25, 2010, 01:39 AM // 01:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Owik Gall

I thought the last nerf was good enough to keep this balanced. It stopped from affecting adjacent foes easily by adding the condition that the foe has to be enchanted.

Might want to recheck your updates. The last thing related to Blinding Surge was a buff back in December '08 that completely removed the enchantment requirement for adjacent blind.

Still don't care either way tbh.

Windf0rce · Jan 25, 2010, 01:50 AM // 01:50

/not signed for all reasons stated above.

Besides, the skill is good, but too specific. Taking Bsurge template (usually an enchant removal, Enervating, etc.) and facing a team of 4 casters / no physicals puts you at a large disadvantage. If you face a team of 3 physicals, you smile... High risk/high reward skill is fine IMHO.